SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I don't understand how you see an opening for R. Will you say more about that.

She blames you for feeling unsafe. Cheating, drinking, and withdrawing seem to be her chosen cures. R is impossible unless she changes. Maybe she'll change overnight ... but maybe she won't change unless and until she hits her rock bottom. What is she doing to make measured changes that will keep her form hitting rock bottom?

Gently, so not let fear keep you from acting in your best interests. Most of that ear, I bet, is fear of the unknown, and there's no way to prevent that. None. You simply have to decide to act even though you're scared.

That part of you that thinks her "unsafe" comment is bullshit? Listen to that part. That’s the part of you that is rebelling against your codependent ways.
I am not codependent on anyone. If I had a WW say something like that to me, I would probably choke from laughing too hard. It’s complete, utter bullshit.

This feels dangerously close to, if not, the unmet needs fallacy. You cannot affair proof your marriage if the thing she desires is illicit sex, even if she still gets eros from you. She gets eros from another too! It's a bottomless pit for many cheaters (man or woman).

The bolded led me on a search that wound up at an older post by Theevent on this very site. It's not a perfect analogy, none are, but it's pretty close.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/664692/unmet-needs/

I am pulling for you to find the strength to make a decision based upon the overwhelming amount of evidence you have from the past several years.

If she miraculously changes after you start or finish with your D, you can always date her again at that point if you choose. In fact, D may be the only thing that wakes her up from her self obsessed behavior. Nothing else has ever moved her in the slightest, has it?

Rivers,

I generally lobby for reconciliation but……Your second to last post on this thread still having hope reminds me of the boiling frog analogy. Your WW not wanting sex, still blaming you for her problems, setting up a secret bank account, and still drinking, all after two years of trying to reconcile, are significant red flags.

Your WW has serious problems. She is using you. You deserve better. Get out, focus on IC, and forget everything your MC told you. No mater what your WW says, don’t give in, because remember, she is also a liar.

SL

I am quite skeptical about the reconciliation working at this point. I also want to ask what a shift on my WW approach would look like and what would be enough to move into reconciliation.

Our home-life tension has evaporated. She talks with me about her day. Snuggled up with me on the couch one evening and has made casual physical contact several times while talking to me. I realize that this is not full-on, classic ready-for-reconciliation behavior, but I cannot explain how much ofa change this is from her previous stance.

One thing I have learned through my time in Al-Anon is that waiting is ok. The house isn't on fire and I seem to have a clear view on what this is and isn't. I am not willing to work on this marriage alone, nor am I willing to wait for her to come around to investing in our relationship.

What I am looking at is the change on her part. I DO have significant questions:
Is she feeling me about to file for divorce and stringing me along?
Is this an actual opening or wishful thinking?
What does a change of heart (even if minor) on her part look like?

I am painfully aware that she and I look at our vows very differently at this point. I do take my promises to her seriously and at the same time feel the freedom to step away from her and this marriage knowing that I did everything I could and waited way past a rash decision to divorce.

One of the other hangups I have is around sex and physical contact. For almost three years she has not wanted physical affection. I see the problem of me being monogamous to someone unwilling to touch me. She will literally hug someone she just met, but flinches and withdraws if I touch her arm while talking to her. Forget a hug or a kiss.

Now I feel like I'm rambling...

Sorry to say this but I think you have wishful thinking. She is still drinking. Still recoiling at your touch. I think you are being strung along as she knows a D would be expensive and she can throw you kibbles and that will be enough to satisfy you. Based on what you have shared I am just very skeptical. Real remorse would be empathy for all of the pain she has caused you. Real transparency. Sobriety.

Look, I don’t believe for a second she was feeling unsafe at all while you were doing the pick me dance. She wanted you to leave her alone and by saying she felt unsafe puts the thought of a possible DV in your mind, which needs to be avoided. She is very manipulative. BTW the pick me dance never works. It’s very common for a new BS to beg and plead and look for any way to please the WS to try and save the M. It often just makes the BS look weak to the WS, and undermines the BS’s self respect. You need to see real changes in her attitude and actions for any chance at R. Good luck to you.

Rivers, I haven't commented on your thread yet, as I normally don't have anything better to offer than some of the more experienced posters, but I thought I'd chime in. I look at things differently than some, so take what I say or leave it, depending on what you need.

This site prohibits generalizations, but that being said, there are gender differences between the sexes. From prophets to poets to psychologists, people have expressed these differences in a myriad of ways.

That being said, I believe the withholding or rationing of sexual intimacy is a form of abuse. When one partner rations sex as a currency used to reward the other for behaving in an appropriate way, they are being manipulative and underhanded. When they withhold it all together, they have become abusive.

Now, imagine if my partner valued communication and emotional connection and I purposely rationed those to say, one 10 minute conversation once a month where i would just sit there and listen (while pretending to be interested), I would be labeled as abusive and manipulative. Now imagine if I withheld that perminantly, but still expected all of the benefits of a traditional relationship.

Just to put things into another perspective, imagine a parent, who, whenever their child came in for a hug responded with revulsion. Now, what would we call that? How would that treatment result in the child's longterm development? How would that affect their ability to form relationships later in life? I think we would be hard pressed to find people who would say, "Well, that's just the way they are."

Granted, there are times when, for medical reasons, a partner is unable to meet that intimate requirement, but that's not what you have here. You have a partner who either holds you in contempt and/or is getting her needs met elsewhere.

Im glad you read Cheating in a Nutshell and I hope you understood it, or rather, took it to heart. I would also recommend Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life. Both helped me immensely by validating and giving words to those feelings I had. Prior to reading those,I struggled with feeling inadequate that I somehow did not have the strength to just get over it or reconcile as others did.

I am 7 years out of Dday2 and my decision to end my M, so think I can speak from a position of being fairly healed. I won't go into my story as it is in other threads, but I will say this. The A took much from me and left me with scars, but it did not break me. I worked on myself for many years and came out stronger and more resilient. Like an earlier poster mentioned, I discovered I like myself and that's a good thing. I don't do happy anymore as I see it as a passing emotion, but I do experience a deep sense of contentment now. I look at my life,my kids, my home and do not wish for more. I also do not regret (mostly) the lifestyle I lost as it came with constant pain and feelings of being inadequate when in reality, I was more than enough.

When I read your posts I see them as being filled with fear and apprehension. You are worried about the future. I'll give you a piece of advice my buddy gave me after his divorce. I asked him what he would have done differently. He said he would have worried less about finances. Things always seemed to work out. Looking back, I would agree. For the first 6 years, I kept a calendar daytime where I tracked bills and payday, desperately trying to balance my budget. There were months when I was $38 in the red and others where I was just barely in the black. I took on extra jobs, tried my hand at selling used stuff on marketplace, and even slept in a dining room for almost 4 years just so my kids could have bedrooms. But never once did I think we were suffering. There was always good home cooking to eat, a safe place to live, and new rituals and traditions to celebrate. I no longer keep track of finances to the same degree as I have come to understand that things work out.

I won't lie and say I hope you reconcile, as I think you are trapped in a toxic relationship. I was as well and it took me some time to detox enough to see that. Once I stepped back and looked at the dynamic our our M, I realized I had spent almost 30 years making excuses and compensating for my W's shortcomings.

I hope you find your way to a place of contentment where you can be fully authentic. Good luck

I’m done. She just asked if we could take a 2 month break from MC and having any conversations that might be hard for her.

Thank you for all the help and support. I’m going to go fall apart now.

Sorry it came to this. You asked in your first post when would you know it was time to call it quits. Now you know. You have endured years of rejection. You deserve better and so do your children. Always value yourself. Good luck with D.