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In my case, my husband and I have both spent a lot of time thinking about what my affair says about me, who I was then, and who I am now. We don’t believe it represents an unfaithful person at my core. Someone else may view that differently, and I understand why.

What were your conclusions? What do you feel the affair ultimately revealed about who you were at that time?

Having read your posts, it's clear you've done enough honest self-examination to say comfortably that you aren't using this framing to dodge accountability. That was my primary concern. At a certain point, arguing over "core identity" just comes down to semantics.

I agree there's no absolute right or wrong here, but returning to the smoking analogy: if someone repeatedly smokes over a sustained period, many people would simply define them as a smoker. That is part of their identity for that period, regardless of how they view themselves deep down. I guess the only relevance for that here is accepting that is how many people will frame you and for you to be prepared for that.

To look at it another way, suppose my partner had an affair where she slept with someone 20 times over three months, but was otherwise loyal to a fault. Some might argue that short, isolated period doesn't define who she is. I would argue that possessing the capacity to make that choice repeatedly over three months tells me a great deal about her core character at that moment. Some people would simply never do that. Some people only want people in their life who have demonstrated through lived experience that they would never do that.

Then people, maybe even yourself, would often fall into an illogical trap here: if a partner slept with 10 different people twice over three months, many more people would label them a "cheater to their core". Yet if they sleep with one person 20 times, people tend to view it as a single, contained mistake. To me, the infraction and the character capacity required to carry it out are identical. Whether it's 20 people once, or one person 20 times, repeated choices form a pattern of identity.

Ultimately, I respect that you and your husband have arrived at a place that allows you both to heal. But for many, the hesitation to accept a label often comes down to protecting oneself from what that label implies, rather than what the evidence actually shows.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 8:38 AM, Tuesday, July 21st]

Dr. Soolers,

I think someone can be described as a smoker, but I also think that's a fairly simplistic way of understanding people. We're usually more complicated than a single pattern of behavior.

For example, my husband was short-tempered with our children for a few months after D-Day, which was completely understandable given the emotional distress he was under. You could say he was angry during that period, but I wouldn't say he was an angry man. He values being a kind, patient, and caring father. His behavior was real, and he took responsibility for it, but I don't think it reflected who he was at his core. I think it reflected someone responding to profound pain.

I guess that's how I tend to think about people in general. Behavior matters. Patterns matter. But I don't think behavior alone tells the whole story of who someone is. Our values matter too. Context matters. The reasons behind our choices matter.

I know not everyone sees it that way, and I genuinely respect that. I realize my framework isn't the one everyone would choose, and I'm okay with that.

"Then people, maybe even yourself, would often fall into an illogical trap here: if a partner slept with 10 different people twice over three months, many more people would label them a 'cheater to their core.' Yet if they sleep with one person 20 times, people tend to view it as a single, contained mistake. To me, the infraction and the character capacity required to carry it out are identical. Whether it's 20 people once, or one person 20 times, repeated choices form a pattern of identity."

Dr. Soolers, I really do understand what you're saying. In fact, I'd even hypothesize (😂) that you and my husband probably think about these things in a similar way.

I think people are messy. I think we're full of contradictions. I think there's context, history, values, wounds, blind spots, growth... all sorts of things that make up a person. So even when I see repeated behavior, I find it difficult to jump straight to, "That's who they are."

Maybe that's why I struggle with reducing people to labels. Some people seem to find more comfort in clear moral categories—right and wrong, faithful and unfaithful, honest and dishonest. I understand why. There's something reassuring about a world that feels orderly.

My mind just tends to see people a little differently.

We're chaotic and unpredictable. We color outside the lines—not just in shades of gray, but in blues, pinks, oranges, and every other color imaginable.

So I think this is probably more of a philosophical difference than a factual one. I don't think either of us is denying what happened. We're just giving different weight to behavior, values, and context when we ask, "Who is this person?"

"What were your conclusions? What do you feel the affair ultimately revealed about who you were at that time?"

I've spent a lot of time asking myself that.

I think, for me, it revealed how disconnected I had become from myself.

Part of what drew me into it was that it allowed me to escape the emotional numbness I was living in. It reminded me there was life outside the castle of suppression I'd unconsciously built around myself.

Looking back, I don't think I was really seeking an affair. I think I was seeking aliveness, comfort, and relief from a loneliness I hadn't fully recognized. I just found those things in the most destructive way possible.

It also forced me to face something I never thought I would have to: that I was capable of betraying my own values. That doesn't mean those values weren't real. It means I learned, painfully, that valuing something isn't enough if I don't live in a way that protects it.

That realization was deeply humbling.

It came at an enormous cost—to my husband, to myself, and to my marriage. And that cost doesn't always have to look like divorce or years of Herculean effort. Sometimes it's quieter than that. Sometimes it's the loss of innocence—the loss of certainty about who we thought we were, and the realization that I was capable of choices I never imagined I’d make.

[This message edited by NotMyIdentity at 10:14 AM, Tuesday, July 21st]

It also forced me to face something I never thought I would have to: that I was capable of betraying my own values. That doesn't mean those values weren't real. It means I learned, painfully, that valuing something isn't enough if I don't live in a way that protects it.

NotMyIdentity,

I think we have just dismantled the semantic trap, and frankly, this feels like a genuine breakthrough in our discussion.

What you have written above gets precisely to the heart of what I was driving at. You seem to accept here that an undeniable part of your identity—whether past or present—is someone who possesses the capacity to betray their own deeply held values. The affair, in essence, acted as the stress test required to reveal that latent capacity.

To take that logic one step further: presumably, you accept that not everyone is capable of betraying their own core values under stress? Some individuals, when faced with extreme emotional numbness, suppression, or loneliness, will still draw an absolute line at betrayal. For them, the barrier is non-negotiable. Recognizing that you were someone whose barrier could yield under pressure is a profound and humbling admission.

I am entirely comfortable with your framing of 'shades of grey' and human complexity, and I can see how it provides a compassionate framework for healing for both you and your husband.

However, your perspective raises an interesting logical question about reciprocity.

You view human beings as inherently messy, chaotic, and governed by context, history, and internal wounds rather than fixed moral categories. Given that you hold this expansive, grey-scale view of human nature, how do you think you would process it if the roles were reversed?

If your husband—under the weight of profound distress, emotional isolation, or his own unaddressed wounds—were to have a sustained affair tomorrow, how would your framework hold up in practice? Would you be able to comfortably extend that same contextual grace to him, viewing his choices merely as a destructive search for 'aliveness' rather than a fundamental breach of who he is? Or would the lived reality of being on the receiving end force a shift back toward clearer, harder boundaries?

It came at an enormous cost—to my husband, to myself, and to my marriage. And that cost doesn't always have to look like divorce or years of Herculean effort. Sometimes it's quieter than that. Sometimes it's the loss of innocence—the loss of certainty about who we thought we were, and the realization that I was capable of choices I never imagined I’d make.

Unless you had to slay the Hyrda or capture Cerberus, it's not enough

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 11:21 AM, Tuesday, July 21st]

To take that logic one step further: presumably, you accept that not everyone is capable of betraying their own core values under stress? Some individuals, when faced with extreme emotional numbness, suppression, or loneliness, will still draw an absolute line at betrayal. For them, the barrier is non-negotiable. Recognizing that you were someone whose barrier could yield under pressure is a profound and humbling admission.

Perfect storm theory... Here's where the uniqueness of every person's situation comes in. So many WS say that they weren't cognizant of their issues before they committed infidelity. How can anyone say they don't have internal "sleeper issues" that could possibly combine with any number of external factors to result in the behavior of cheating? It's a vulnerability in and of itself to believe so certainly that one could never do it... Certainly some people's perfect storms are much rarer than others (say, a Sunday drizzle vs a once-in-a-hundred-years storm), but I could never confidently categorize people as capable of cheating or inherently incapable of cheating. I mean, you said so yourself DRSOOLERS, that you support the idea of an RA (not to make this personal.)

If your husband—under the weight of profound distress, emotional isolation, or his own unaddressed wounds—were to have a sustained affair tomorrow, how would your framework hold up in practice? Would you be able to comfortably extend that same contextual grace to him, viewing his choices merely as a destructive search for 'aliveness' rather than a fundamental breach of who he is? Or would the lived reality of being on the receiving end force a shift back toward clearer, harder boundaries?

Do you expect NMI's framework not to hold up if that was the case? Are you are just having a hard time conceptualizing this? (not intended to be snarky... possibly bad phrasing on my part.)

Unless you had to slay the Hyrda or capture Cerberus, it's not enough laugh

Not enough for whomst?

Dr. Soolers,

I think this is actually the part of the conversation where the rubber meets the road. It’s one thing to hold a belief intellectually, and another to imagine living it when you’re the person who has been hurt.

I do want to clarify something, though. I’m not sure I would call this a breakthrough, only because I don’t think I’ve ever disagreed that the affair revealed something important about me. I have always believed that it did.

It revealed vulnerabilities I had not understood. It revealed ways I was able to disconnect from my values and make choices that caused profound harm. I think accepting those things has been an important part of my healing and accountability.

Where I think we may differ is not whether it revealed something about me, but what meaning we assign to that information.

If my husband had an affair tomorrow, I would be devastated. I would feel anger, grief, betrayal, and probably a whole range of emotions I can’t fully predict. I don’t think having a contextual view of people means I would somehow bypass the pain of being wounded.

But I do believe I could still hold the belief that his actions, even deeply harmful ones, would not necessarily be the entirety of who he is.

I think this is also where we may have a slightly different understanding of boundaries. I don’t see refusing to reduce someone to a single category as having softer or less firm boundaries.

I actually do believe there are moral categories. I believe some things are right and some things are wrong. I believe betrayal is wrong, and I believe choices have consequences.

Where I differ is that I don’t believe violating a moral value automatically defines the whole of who someone is. To me, there is a difference between saying, "This person caused profound harm and I need to respond accordingly," and saying, "This person is nothing more than the harm they caused."

I think there is a strength in being able to hold both truths at the same time: that someone can do something deeply harmful and still be more than the harm they caused; that someone can be accountable for their choices without being reduced to those choices.

I also think this applies to comparisons around shared wounds. I find it interesting when someone says, "I had those same wounds and I didn’t cheat," as if that proves something definitive about character. I don’t think similar circumstances necessarily mean identical internal experiences. Two people can encounter similar pain and process it through very different histories, coping mechanisms, beliefs, and vulnerabilities.

That doesn’t remove responsibility. The choices we make matter. The impact on others matters. But I don’t think a person’s response to pain alone is a simple measure of whether they are a good person or a bad person.

So yes, I think my framework would hold, although I imagine it would be incredibly painful and would undoubtedly be tested. I could feel deeply hurt by my husband’s choices and still believe he is more than the choices that caused the most harm.

Maybe this is where our difference remains: I think you may place more weight on a revealed capacity as evidence of identity, whereas I place more weight on understanding that capacity within the larger context of a person—their choices, values, accountability, and growth.

I do think our choices reveal something real about us. They can reveal our vulnerabilities, our blind spots, our coping mechanisms, and the ways we respond under pressure. Those things matter and deserve honest examination.

But I don’t believe the existence of a capacity, even one revealed through repeated choices, automatically makes that capacity the defining feature of a person’s identity or the complete story of who they are.

Apologies, this got a little long-winded. I’m apparently still training my lung capacity before attempting the whole Cerberus situation. 😂

[This message edited by NotMyIdentity at 2:02 PM, Tuesday, July 21st]

"I was curious about that part of your process—what helped you recognize those moments, and what helped you respond differently over time? Was there anything that helped you become more aware of those patterns or catch them sooner?"

One thing that has been really helpful for me is learning to identify the behaviors and situations that were present during my affair. Looking back, those are immediate red flags now.

For behaviors, that includes things like yelling at my BH, gaslighting/lying to him, speaking negatively of him to others, withholding my feelings, allowing resentment to build instead of addressing it, disrespecting both his personal boundaries and the boundaries of our marriage, and using alcohol or drugs without him knowing.

For situations, it includes being around people who aren't supportive of our marriage or reconciliation, believing I could be "just friends" with someone of the opposite sex, spending one-on-one time with those friends of the opposite sex, drinking or getting drunk without my BH present, and similar situations. None of those are things I'm willing to entertain anymore because I know where those choices can lead.

I think the level of trust my BH had in me before the affair is something I'll probably never have again in the same way. He has told me he trusts me now, but I'm sure it's a much more guarded trust that has been earned over time rather than given freely.
Before the affair, I was displaying a lot of red-flag behaviors that were completely out of character for me. I was also putting myself in situations that, if they happened today, my BH would shut down immediately without hesitation. Back then, he ignored his instincts and his frustration because he genuinely believed I wasn't capable of hurting him. That blind trust was something I took for granted.

Since D-Day, I've also learned a lot about myself. I've realized I'm a very anxiously attached person, and I struggle when I don't feel in control of a situation. Those two things have caused me, at times, to slip back into a victim mentality or become defensive, then angry, only to end up desperately fearing my BH will leave me. Those moments have been incredibly difficult for both of us and understandably frustrating for him.
I'm continuing to work on those deeper issues in individual counseling because I've realized those are the things driving many of my emotional reactions. I think this is what people often mean when they talk about finding your "why." Everyone has their own story and their own reasons behind the pain they caused. Those reasons don't excuse what we did, and they may not make sense to anyone else, but understanding them is essential if we want to make lasting changes.
Being transparent with my BH about those deeper issues has been incredibly helpful for us. Now, when I notice myself slipping into that anxious, victim-minded headspace, I try to tell him that I'm struggling or having an off day. I'm not always able to recognize it in the moment or communicate it well but it's something I'm working on.

Like I mentioned earlier, I also try to remind myself that I can't change the past. I can only continue taking accountability for my choices and for the affair. Any time I spend working toward reconciliation is not time wasted. Not everyone is given the opportunity to reconcile, and I try to remind myself of that often. Hopefully this answers your questions, or at least gives some insight to my experience and what's been helpful.

When I look at those patterns, what stands out is avoidance, emotional suppression, poor boundaries, and unhealthy coping mechanisms. Those are the areas where I believe the work is now. This was really what I was getting at when I said why’s. I probably didn’t even realize that I use shorthand of whys —-as meaning what are the deficiencies? What are you working on?

Sometimes I don’t realize what u am asking is being asked in shorthand. I am going to stop asking for people’s whys and ask them instead "what are the deficiencies, what are you working on?" Because honestly this list was more what I was looking for.

Usually new ws do not show up here already having the whys boiled down. Usually they have to tell the story so we can help with things we see in their story. When I got here, I had come straight from my affair, left and did some therapy, confessed on my own two months later.

Anyway, that’s okay this is different I was mostly just trying to give context on how this happens. And I agree with you, the stories then can be misconstrued as excuses. We lose members to these pitfalls sometimes. That’s why I also usually ask them to think about the stop sign, because some people, including me, arrive here too raw, too confused.

I see you have a good perspective towards healing, and honestly I think I have gotten more from you in this thread than I can give. I wish I had been able to see the whole "I am more than my harm" right out of the gate, it would have positioned me better for the soul searching and for helping my husband. You seem to be approaching this jot from a standpoint of toxic shame, but with an earnest, let’s fix this. I want to fix this, and this is not who I want to be.

Honestly, to get back to the original thought of the thread—what now?

I believe a lot of ws, including me are avoidant, avoidance will erode or relationship with ourselves and therefore our relationship with others. This disconnection from self, the sleepwalking, is what a lot of us experience as a result. Emotional numbness? I can totally relate.

The work would just look like making sure you are staying conscious. You are fighting the avoidance within yourself to ignore your needs or concerns to make things go easier, or like a lot of us drown ourselves in responsibility until that sense of self is distorted.

The reason I asked about the performative aspect is in my case, I think I wanted to reconnect to my vibrancy, but I played at it because I didn’t really know how to have it anymore.

When you are asleep, the affair does awaken the parts of you that you miss feeling. It’s an easy drug to take for that boost. So what you have to do infinitely moving forward is to find that drug in the healthy things. Pursue delights that allow you to get into your flow state. Tap into your creativity, or academia, or hobbies. Build a life you are awake in. Be authentic within yourself enough that you are looking after you, what you want, and finding ways of meeting your own needs. We are awake in a life we are satisfied with. One that we choose and don’t feel stuck.

You get awake enough to keep choosing. Keep finding things to be excited about. Take up space and make room for yourself.

You may at some point decide to talk more about your feelings, or not, but a lot of the work is also not just playing in the flowers like I do to light myself up—-it’s also healing the parts of ourselves that self abandons (which may not be your issue this is just an example). I started to really tie a lot of past trauma and why I cope the way I do together and sought out different ways to respond or think about it. There was abuse I hadn’t thought of in years that effected me in profound ways that I never even recognized.

It was admitting to myself that people pleasing had been manipulative and dishonest and that I paid a great cost for it. But learning not to do it? I still work on that and I do improve incrementally but it’s taking me a lot of peeling back layers and layers to have epiphanies that really should have always been evident.

You are not at the beginning of your healing anymore, but becoming intentional, conscious, and doing that rewiring stuff. Gratitude practices helped me really understand what made me tick in terms of being satisfied, it provided clues towards things I needed to devote more time or energy towards. It helped me sort my values.

It sounds to me like you are on the path. And honestly like you were able to skip a huge chunk of stuff that took me forever. Perhaps you started with better self worth, because that’s been a lot of my battle. I don’t know what your things are—you seem to want to remain vague on some things which is your right. But without really knowing your battles I can only provide my experiences and some general advice. That’s not a passive aggressive statement by the way, I know it could be read that way.

This has become such an amazing conversation. I have been thinking about it and wanting to chime in. Here are some thoughts from my musings.

First, thank you for posting NMI, and for sticking in the conversation. I am sorry you are going through this, and sorry for others affected. Regardless, each and every human being, including you, is precious and of infinite value...more on that later. My observations and comments may be haphazard, but I will try to make some sense out of them.

Your initial post started with this.....

"New to the forums and curious about where I go from here?". I DO have a suggested direction. Permit me to develop.

First, some random observations, questions, and musings. Please do not feel you need to answer them. And be advised I reserve the right to be wrong. Obviously the thoughts are based on very little information, and in some instances....silence ....on certain matters.

1) WHAT IS IN A NAME?

"NotMyIdentity" is your chosen name. We tend to focus on things that are important to us. The chosen name, and the eventual landing place of the thread, speak to the likelihood that your identity ...and possibly.... your "image".... are very important to you, and that it has been at the forefront of your mind.

2) ARRIVAL

Your arrival is interesting. From my limited experience, not typical. You arrive with all things neatly in order. Self disclosure. Substantial research. Regular therapy. Seemingly smooth reconciliation. Yet you still have a struggle. What has happened has threatened your identity with yourself. And....it rightfully should in all honesty. The temperature becomes a bit elevated with some challenges. On the one hand you have no trouble speaking words of acknowledgement of your wrong, and accept responsibility, but your dialogue then again goes to endeavoring to establish your identity as being for lack of better words "a good person".

3) DETAILS MATTER.

I am speaking from silence here. Almost all assumptions. But there is no real detail on your affair itself. My hunch is it was much more than a kiss or a one night stand. The involvement was likely moderate over many months, possibly longer. There was no information on WHY you chose to self disclose. Again, details matter.

And keep in mind, this development is all centered around ...and headed towards...."what is my identity"?. A good question not just for you, but for all of us.

There would be a big difference....let's say....if you self disclosed because the AP's wife found out and was going to blackmail you .....versus if your soul was ridden with guilt and sadness because your dear husband trusted you implicity. These differences in detail speak to CHARACTER and hence IDENTITY.

4) MIXED BAG - HOW DO WE CHOOSE?

As you and others have accurately identified, IDENTITY is not necessarily defined by one wrong action... or two...or....xyz....for any given human. I would suggest almost every single person has some good qualities. I am sure that there were "good" qualities within Adolf Hitler, Ted Budney, Tim McVay, and countless others who are remembered for atrocities against humanity. So how do we in fact determine our identity?

5) THROUGH OUR OWN EYES

This is quite common and natural and is what, in my opinion, you are in the process of doing. You are wrestling with the knowledge of what you did, and trying to fit within a framework. You quite naturally do not want to come to the conclusion that your identity is in fact "a bad person". And how do you judge that? What makes that determination? Well, you examine what you did against a set of conscience, unconscious, or implied moral standards.

If you find you have crossed one or more of those moral standards, you (and most people), then try to find a cause of us committing those things that originates OUTSIDE OF OURSELVES. This can be a form of blame shifting, depending on what the real facts are. We can very easily construct the narrative so that....sure....we did something wrong....but it was because of x,y,z....so I am really not that bad. Essentially.... excuses. Causations... perhaps. Or Both.

Defining our identity through our own eyes and our own rationalizations is generally a losing battle. We can never really rest easy. The next two are more telling. There is however an area of self reflection that rightly attributes value to ourselves. This is right and good, but it is beyond the scope of this discussion.

6) IDENTITY RELATIVE TO OTHERS

This section is EXTREMELY valuable to spend time in. We humans were meant for connection. In a very significant way, our identity is actually formed through our relationships to OTHERS. Think about it....we find identity in our workplace amongst a team of staff, we find identity in a family, in a community, in a church, in a gang, in a marriage.

This is inescapable, it is part of being human.

Let's illustrate, including your affair in the illustration. Let's say you as a part-time hooby, taught young children how to swim in the summer in the town pool. The children you have taught found you gentle, kind, and patient. You have formed a part of your identity through your interaction with those children.

Now, contrast this with your effect on the AP's wife. She comes to realize as she is at home caring for young children, you were in a hotel, naked, and knowingly having sex with the person that she thought her heart was safe with. Your identity related to this poor wife and mother is utterly treacherous. The pain in her life that you contributed to is unspeakable.

HOW WE AFFECT OTHERS is a large part of our identity.

Another juxtaposition.....

In your mind's eye, imagine your wedding day. The family and friends who watched your vows and celebrated your promises before God. Think of the meanings. Think of your husband's beloved family, who in essence were also trusting you to keep your promises and hold your husband's heart dear. Of anyone in the world, they trusted you would be his biggest fan and ally....the protector of his heart. In the next instance, imagine in your mind's eye, your choice after choice to deceitfully betray him. To give your emotions and sacred sex to another, while he was unawares. Can you imagine the heartache and heartbrake of those family and friends if they knew the REALITY of what you have done? This does in fact become a part of your identity. It IS a part of your identity. Your inner person knows this.

7) THE MOVING TARGET - YOUR HUSBAND

Well, your husband may not be a moving target, but he potentially could be enabling you to "save" your desired identity, and avoid some accountability and discomfort.

Although you do mention him, it seemed to me that there was an absence of the presence of tremendous grief and trauma that many betrayed people experience. Many waywards will comment on that....that their spouse was hurt way more than they could have ever imagined.

So, building upon point #6 above....showing that ones identity is in part established by how we affect and impact others...is it possible your husband is not showing effects that are proportional to the injury?

There are many potential reasons this could happen.

He does not know whole truth,

He has a severely avoidant personality trait,

He has had dozens of sexual partners and does not hold sex as a sacred act,

He is in, or has had, his own affair,

He has a non monogamous bent,

He is emotionally insensitive,

Etc., etc.

So, if in fact one or more are the case, you may get the sense that your affair was not really all that big of a deal, hence, your identity can be less affected.

But let's say, you were married to a man who you and he were both your only sexual partners. Let's say he was extremely emotionally intelligent and sensitive. His life's dream was to be husband and father and he cherished you as his true love...giving meaning to his life. What if your affair utterly destroyed him ....he was unable to sleep, eat, or think straight? What if it turned his world so far upsidedown, he could barely get out of bed or hold a job? He had to be medicated to barely keep his job and survive. He needed intense trauma therapy. Etc.

A husband who you observed crushed, broken, changed forever.... very likely would impact how you make this "identity" assessment.

This "moving target" can also be cultural. I have heard in some countries or regions ...affairs are almost expected and tolerated as normal.

Can we WHOLLY rely on how we affect others to assess or evaluate our identity? Can we use our culture? Our friend group?

I would say....yes.....and no.

What you might ask? Then how do we rightly evaluate our identity? The next point is I firmly believe, the absolute most accurate was to evaluate, find, create our identity as a human.

8) THE WAY

First, the information in this point is absolutely NOT something I take credit for. It has been a gift to me.

I submit first and foremost, that this search for identity proves we are not just animals. We are spiritual beings. Identity....self awareness....is inherent to us. Without writing a volume, simply put, this points to God. Yes, i espouse a biblical worldview. And I truly believe that worldview is not whimsical....it is supported by fact and observation.

If there is a God, which there is. And if He is our Creator, which He is. Then He knows EXACTLY how we are meant to operate. There is a recorded account in the Bible about the fall of our race. This fall is real. And this fall is universal. It is proven by observation everywhere. It is proven by your adultery. By your lies. Our sins, mine, yours everyone's .....shows us WHAT IS IN US.

The analogy often given is a tea bag. One does not really know what is in the teabag until it is placed in hot water. You found yourself in hot water, and what was in you came out.

A person who commits a murder and is arrested, tried, and convicted ....is objectively considered a murderer. Sure there are various degrees of murder.....but the person is convicted of murder. He may have been a nice person in most regards. But the law requires justice.

Before God's law, we all actually have fallen short and missed the mark. Our identity....when rightly evaluated before God ...is severely wanting.

Yet that is not the end of story. God still finds us of infinite value. We were made in His image, so even through fallen, we have tremendous value. You have tremendous value.

What if you finally come to the conclusion that your identity is clouded and dark? What if your husband starts to feel and see clearer...and he sees you as terribly betraying his love and decides you are no longer what he wants? What if the loved ones of your AP learn of you and despise how you were part of their family being destroyed?

What if I told you....despite all that.....you are of infinite value? Not only that, there is a path of restoration, where you can have a sure foundation for a clean and pure identity?

That path is the Gospel of Christ. The person of Jesus. This is where the wayward person, the lost, the guilty....can find mercy and healing. A place where Jesus voluntarily took the guilt and exacted justice on the cross. And mysteriously we were served justice in Him. But then we receive...as a gift ....the perfect life He lived.

This is where I suggest you seek identity. I am so glad He has given me this form foundation. It is an identity that is technically not my own....but it is mine. My identity is trashed....broken. I have broken every law in my heart. Yet my identity rests sure.

We might deal with the real life consequences of our past wrongs, but we can live with peace knowing the Savior rescued us from ruin.

I hope at least something in this has helped.

But that is my answer to your question...."where do I go from here?"

[This message edited by WoodThrush2 at 7:54 PM, Wednesday, July 22nd]

WoodThrush,

First, thank you for taking the time to write all of that. I can tell you put a lot of thought into it, and I appreciate that. I’ll also admit upfront that this probably won’t be the most unbiased response because this topic hits some pretty deep places for me.

I’m very familiar with Christianity. I’ve been around itmy entire life. And if I’m being completely honest, one of the biggest struggles I’ve had with Christianity has not always been the teachings themselves. It has been the people who claim to represent them.

That has been a hard thing for me to reconcile.

Because I understand the idea that we are all fallen. I understand that none of us are without sin. But what I have struggled with is watching that truth becomesomething people use to rank brokenness. Whose sin is worse. Whose failure is more acceptable. Who deserves grace and who doesn’t.

And that has made my own walk with faith complicated.

I have become one of those people who feels like Christianity has caused more harm than healing intheir life. I say that while also recognizing that I probably have not always given God a fair chance separate from the people who have represented Him to me.

Because how do you understand unconditional love if you have never experienced it? How do you understand grace if you have never truly received it? How do you understand humility when the "log" someone is trying to remove from your eye is smaller than the "speck" in theirs?

I think you understand what I’m saying.

But I do want to engage with what you wrote because I actually think there is an important conversation here.

My argument has never been that people aren’t broken. My argument has never been that our choices don’t reveal something real about us.

They do.

My affair revealed things about me that I needed to see. It revealed my vulnerabilities. It revealed my blind spots. It revealed unhealthy ways I was coping and ways I had disconnected from my own values.

It revealed something true.

But where I think we differ is what we do with that truth.

You brought up the tea bag analogy, and I actually think it is a really interesting one because I agree withthe premise. Pressure reveals what is inside.

When a tea bag hits hot water, something comes out. The flavor is real. The ingredients matter. You can’t pretend the tea didn’t change the water.

But the tea that comes out is not the entire story of what is inside the bag.

There are different ingredients. Different parts. Different things that make up the whole.

And I think people are like that.

The affair revealed that I was capable of betrayal. That is a painful thing to admit. It is something I will never forget, and honestly, I don’t think I should.

But I don’t believe that capacity became my entire identity.

I want to be clear that I don’t mean that as a way of minimizing what happened. The affair is not some insignificant mistake I can put in a box and move on from. It is one of the most significant things I have everdone. It hurt my husband. It hurt my marriage. It revealed things about myself that I needed to confront.

I have to live honestly with that.

But I also believe there is a difference between acknowledging something changed me and believing it is the only thing that defines me.

I am not saying, "I didn’t do this."

I am saying, "I did this, and it mattered, and it hurt people, but it is not the entirety of who I am."

I think sometimes people hear that distinction and worry it is an attempt to minimize responsibility. But I don’t believe accountability requires self-erasure.

I can fully acknowledge that I caused harm without believing that harm is the complete definition of me.

A person can be capable of anger without being only an angry person. A person can be capable of selfishness without selfishness being their entire character. A person can be capable of betrayal without betrayal becoming the whole truth of who they are.

That doesn’t make those things okay. It doesn’t remove consequences. It doesn’t erase the pain caused.

It just recognizes that human beings are complicated.

And honestly, this is where I think Christianity itself becomes interesting. If our worst actions become our permanent identity, then what is the purpose of repentance? What is the purpose of redemption? What is the purpose of transformation?

Those ideas exist because what we do matters, but also because we are not frozen in the worst moments of our lives.

The affair is part of my story. It is something I did. It is something I have to carry responsibility for. It changed me. It humbled me. It forced me to confront parts of myself I did not want to see.

But it is not my identity.

I think maybe the difference between us is notwhether the capacity matters. I think we both agree that it does.

The difference is whether that capacity becomes the definition of the person.

I see it as one part of a much larger, messier, more complicated human being.

The choice matters. The harm matters. The accountability matters.

But I don’t believe one part of someone’s story gets to become the whole story.

@KarmaCat and Hikingout - I will follow up but I have to sit with the ideas for a little bit first.

[This message edited by NotMyIdentity at 8:46 PM, Wednesday, July 22nd]

To be fair, I’m not saying that you believe identity is fixed by someone’s worst action. I think you’ve been clear that you believe there is a path toward redemption, restoration, and being made new.

What I find interesting, though, is the tension between those two ideas. Biblically, someone can be forgiven, restored, and in the process of being made new — yet the disagreement seems to arise when I say that this failure is not my identity.

Because if repentance and remorse are markers of a changed heart, then I’m trying to understand why saying "this is not my identity" would be seen as a problem. If the Gospel says that a person’s identity is ultimately found in Christ and not in their sin, then how do we determine when it is appropriate to stop attaching the label of the old self to someone who is trying to live as the new one?

I understand that 8 months is not a long time in the scope of rebuilding trust and healing from something that caused real hurt. I’m not arguing that there should be some automatic timeline where everything resets.

But at the same time… doesn’t seem to be 8 months. 😂😂😂

Kidding, kidding

I just think the deeper question is: what actually marks the point where "not yet" becomes "yes"? Because from where I’m sitting, that "yes" seems to be determined more by human judgment than by anything explicitly defined by God.